Tenhou Stuff VI

Hello!

Here we go again with some Tenhou goodies!

1.

pon WWYD

This is a very vague and perhaps trivial situation but I have 2 questions:

  • this hand’s not too impressive (nor horrible), but was opening it a good idea since it’s E1(Tonpuusen)? I think I could’ve at least waited for another Hatsu.
  • WWYD? Keeping all Souzu tiles is the fastest way to tenpai but keeping 27p gives the possibility of creating another block in Pinzu and perhaps utilizing Dora. In the game I discarded 2p. I wonder if 1s was playable?

2.

ron

I wasn’t sure about that Ron. On second thought, I realized that thanks to Ippatsu, both this win and Tsumo were at least a Mangan. It’s so important to always be on our toes! 😀

3.

WWYD1

WWYD? I think we need Nan here. Souzu are ok too. My choice here is 4m. Ryanmen 25m is weak with 3x2m out and the hand’s waiting on 5m anyway. If we get 3m, we can let 6s go. If we get 58m, we can discard 6m. Does anyone agree?

4.

WWYD2

WWYD? My choice would be between 35s.  I initially favored discarding 5s (old ways…) but I think it’s better to go with 3s here. We can keep two pairs that way. Also, 2x4s are out so the wait is weaker than normally.

5.

WWYD3

WWYD? Normally, 7m would be a no-brainer here but since 14 ryanmen in Pinzu is weak (only 3 tiles left), I think it could be better to discard 23p and keep 7m. What do you think?

It’s not early and getting 68m doesn’t reduce our shanten whereas 14p gives 1-shanten. The problem is that we may complete our waits somewhere else first and end up with a weak tenpai.

 

May Yakuman be with you!

Krabman


9 thoughts on “Tenhou Stuff VI

  1. 1. I would do the same.
    2. This should be dama, you’re aiming for fastest possible win to secure 3rd place.
    3. Nah, I would still drop this 7m, one 2m left is better than nothing and you got 3 pairs already.
    4. I’d drop 2m which gives nothing, also dropping 3s kills sanshoku potential.
    5. 3 tiles for this ryanmen are enough; I’d still go with 7m drop.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. 1) Small differences in scores are usually crucial in tonpuusen, so securing your yaku is of utmost importance. Yakuhai are usually ponned early, but do not atozuke with a dora-less hand. Atozuke for 1k/2k is bad play, as you take great risks for low rewards. It is true that ponning hatsu immediately causes u to lose 2 safe tiles. If your hand has good connections, going for a quick hand is fine. If your hand looks like 147 258 369 in the suits, then of course, you keep those 2 hatsu as potential safe tiles. Once you pon hatsu, go full tile efficiency for your hand, but bail when there is danger. Do not push that 1k hand against a riichi.

    2) The above comment is correct, this should have been a dama in the desperate race to secure 3rd place. Also note that throwing in your riichi stick drops you to same score as last place. While on tenhou, this is fine due to seat position (you will get 3rd and he will get last), this riichi stick may make a bigger difference in other situations.

    3) 7m is a better discard. There is one in the pond already.

    4) Yes 2m (I am agreeing more and more with the previous comment). You eventually have to discard 5m and get a new pair, maybe 7s or 7p. We are going for a tanyao ssk with 2 doras here.

    5) Dropping 7m is fine. Ssk did cross my mind, but floating for an unconfirmed yaku is not very good play when all your taatsus are in with decent shape.

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  3. As for 3, I agree with you (and disagree with Mati and LKH). Discarding 4m is strictly better than discarding 7m in terms of pure tile efficiency; 11 kinds-29 tiles vs 7 kinds-20 tiles if we take into account chiitoitsu (if we ignore chiitoitsu, the two discard choices are equal; 7 kinds-20tiles). Being able to pon the fourth 7m is better than being able to chi the fourth 2m, too.

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  4. As for 5, discarding 7m is obviously the best choice if you simply want to maximize tile efficiency (and, in the given situation, maximizing tile efficiency should be your priority). Doing so also conforms to the five-block method (recall, each block should have at most three tiles according to the five-block method).

    However, suppose the game were without red 5 AND you really needed mangan+ to take over the opponents. Then you should aim for sanshoku of 678. That said, discarding 23p to revert this 2-away hand to 3-away is too inefficient. Keep in mind that 23p can still be a part of your final hand when you get sanshoku of 678. The best way to aim for sanshoku here is to discard a 7p, so that the hand itself remains 2-away from ready (and 3-away from sanshoku). This is similar to the “switching” method I discussed in my book (the example in the book was 1-away, whereas this hand is 2-away).

    Discarding a 7p here means you are adopting what’s called the six-block method. The six-block method is a lot more complicated than the five-block method, and so you may want to stay away from it until you get really comfortable with tile efficiency.

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  5. just opinions:

    1: immediate pon of hatsu is fine in tonpuusen, but awful in hanchan. dropping 2p is optimal after calling, 1357s is actually not bad as a shape to improve on. you could potentially draw/wait on a dora too, which is a minor bonus.

    2: it’s all last, so might as well. if there were a honba or riichi stick in the middle, a case could be argued for going into furiten and waiting for tsumo (as a mangan tsumo would let you take 2nd and the other two players would almost definitely betaori after a disconnected player and a riichi), but this is just taking what’s been given to you and hoping for uradora.

    3: this hand is deceptively weak. nan will probably come out, but I wouldn’t count on doing anything more than playing a very slow, defensive game and breaking up your souzu with 6s first. it’s too risky to do much of anything else besides wait-and-see. Your nan could just as easily be locked up in the disconnected player’s hand… if you draw a dora, then you can think about which manzu shape to break after that, but until then your manzu are very much live tiles that other people may need. the path for this hand is extremely awkward, but there is only one possible high-value path this hand can take (san an kou+nan+dora) and I would pursue it until toimen shows additional danger signs (keep an eye on oya’s iishanten though!).

    4: 2m, no question. the 357p and 3557s are the best things going for this hand, and if you draw 3m you can still aim for sanshoku. this is a hand and situation where you wouldn’t hesitate to open your hand, so you want to maintain calling flexibility and take whatever comes your way. kamicha will drop loads of useful stuff either way, and pairing up 3s or 7s isn’t too unlikely either, letting you pon either of those souzu groups.

    5: 7m is still a no-brainer here, as 23p still has good potential. you can preserve all of your ryanmen waits; why gamble on picking up another one? sanshoku is a far-away dream that you can chase if you want to, but with the way the points are a tidy 3900/5200 hand is perfect to take you into the last round.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. First off – it’s great to see the comment section bustling with life! Thanks for engaging in the discussion 😀

    As you can see, I still waver quite a lot in tile efficiency. Some of it comes from my “question every discard” approach and things I’ve read in Daina’s book. It’s sometimes the case that I play the way you suggest but unsure of my choice (even if it worked out) I prefer to ask stronger players.

    Thanks for corrections and analyses! I’ll only stick to my decision in regards to ex. 3.

    Spenser – how do you know Oya’s iishanten? Is it a general guess or do his discards suggest that?

    Like

  7. Just a feeling. Lots of tedashi discards (tiles already inside their hand) including tiles near the dora combined with it being late in the game suggest that it’s fairly likely. (If it were a higher table, I would worry about dama 7700!) It’s likely enough that I would say it’s the primary danger despite toimen being able to overtake you with a good tsumo (2m looks highly suspect too, so that’s a danger area as well).

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Yeah, even at 2-3d (with decent R) late game is very dangerous so it’s not good to push weak hands. Why do you think there’s no risk of dama 7700 here?

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