Tenhou Stuff XVI

Howdy!

Time to reflect on some situations… again! As you might notice, I’ve adopted tad different wording this time, I hope you’ll like it!

Reading music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzsu5Az-YOc

Glam’s back \m/

1. Riichi judgement
ha

Mangan tenpai. What to do? I don’t think Riichi makes any difference in terms of the likelihood that Haku will show up. Or am I wrong? My main concern – our discards are fishy… with such an early Riichi some people may become wary of sneaky waits. They have quite a few tiles to defend with (genbu + suji). One obvious benefit of Riichi is that our opponents will likely abandon their hands.

The lobby we play at certainly makes SOME difference here 😉

Is the possibility of a wait change (nobetan shapes or ryanmen in Manzu/Pinzu) any incentive to go dama here? Would those waits actually be improvements given that our current wait is fairly high in the ‘safe rank’?

I hope I’m not overanalyzing this haha!

2. 5 block method
bloki

Our blocks are:

135m 35799p (two blocks) 112s 567s

What to discard? I think that ryankan in Manzu wouldn’t normally be very useful at this stage. However, in this case it contains two Doras and ensures that we keep at least one of them. Another important thing is to keep both pairs. In this case I think the best discard is 2s. Keeping 7p gives us a chance for SSK.

What do you think?

3. 5 block method
szejp-many

We could take the easy way but…

Remember to atomize your blocks in the early stages. Yes, this hand is already ryan shanten but Manzu are not 2 456 8. They are 24568! We have two lone tiles in both other suits. We need one more block to get our magic 5 blocks. Daina Chiba says in his book that lone tiles near shapes are stronger than loners because they may easily connect. I think we should keep the whole shape in Manzu in hopes for some nice draws there. Manzu can easily develop into a tasty continuous shape:
23456 (waiting on 147)
45678 (waiting on 369)

Drawing another pair (2/8m) wouldn’t hurt either.

1m9m open up a possibility of Itsuu. And, of course, 1m is Dora so it’d be welcome even more.

I’m wondering whether to discard 3p3s or 89p penchan? Getting rid of that nasty penchan (which is even weaker with one 7p out) increases our chances of a good wait later on. I think that’s what more advanced players would do, but I’d welcome any feedback on this.

4. Pairless tenpai… kinda 😉
tenpai

Blocks:

45m 789m 34p 55p 67p 234s

Guess what – we’re not actually pairless! Atomizing at work again.

What to discard? It’s always heartbreaking to let a ryanmen go, I know… which one should go? Let’s count our ukeire. Yeah, a bit of math is unavoidable in Mahjong.

Discarding a Pinzu ryanmen leaves us with ukeire of 36m (7 tiles) plus 25p OR 58p (6 tiles). 13 tiles in total.

Let’s see the other option – discarding 45m…

What’s crucial here is that it lets us keep 4 complete sets. Our ukeire for tenpai will be:

6m (4 tiles) 258p (10 tiles) and 5s (4 tiles). 18 tiles in total.

Why 6m and 5s? They will create nobetan shapes which are pretty cool waits as well.

6789m 345 567p 234s
789m 345 567p 2345s

Additionally, we can get ryanmen waits with 9m24s! 9 more tiles.

No 2 is clearly better. Is my reasoning OK?

5. Awareness/situational play

uwaszaj

Our hand is not an amazing iishanten no brainer but it’s not hopeless. Strong lone tiles, ryanmen, Yakuhai… As you can see, Pei has been discarded twice. Remember that Suufon renda (四風連打) rule which didn’t seem all that important? If you don’t wanna risk having this hand aborted, better pay attention! I should’ve discarded Nan.

EMA – bring that rule back! Don’t rob us, players of such sweet nuances.

6. More 5 block method…

wwyd

Our blocks are:

35m 89m 468p 23s 6s 99s NanNan

We have six blocks. Having two pairs is advisable but I don’t think it applies here. Our pairs are stand-alone, meaning they’re not as flexible as pairs in shapes like 122 or 799. In such case, I think it’s best to ditch one of the pairs and hope to get another block with 6s instead. My pair of choice is 9s. I’d keep Nan just in case Shimocha wants to get a Pon.

Do you think it’s good logic?

Last but not least:

wwyd2

What would you discard and why?

May Yakuman be with you!
Krabman


8 thoughts on “Tenhou Stuff XVI

  1. 1. I would go 2 discards back in time and riichi for the 9s wait. Riichi adds 6000 points to your hand and doesn’t really hurt the chances of your opponents dealing in given that it’s a wait on a terminal in the suit that makes up 3/4 of your pond. 9s should appear to be one of the safest non-genbu tile to your opponents. Additionally, your pond doesn’t give as many safe tiles as you would think; the 2s and 8s merely replace the suji created by the 5s. Since you’ve waited until now, haku is probably slightly better than 9s, despite one being dead. You’ve even got the advantage that you’re calling richi right after shimocha discarded one, which makes it even safer. Don’t worry about your opponents soul-reading you for a sneaky wait; it’s far more likely that your hand just had ryanmen in pinzu and manzu than that you had a ready hand waiting to set up a sneaky tanki.

    2. The ryankan in manzu is definitely worth keeping, and can even transform into two blocks should you draw 1m or 5m. 112s is definitely the block to break, and I do like the 2s best.

    3. It’s almost always correct to keep 24568 intact; literally ANY manzu tile advances the shape and discarding 2m or 8m nearly commits you to only a single manzu block because of the risk of furiten. As for the 89p penchan vs the floating 3p3s, I’m very torn. The penchan can easily end up as 678 which is very likely to give sanshoku, but one 7p is already dead and if that ends up as your wait you don’t get pinfu. I think I’d discard the 3p now; the floating 3s plus the penchan is better than breaking up the penchan now.

    4. Agree with basically everything.

    5. The key thing about this is that you’re 21000 behind 3rd place and you’re in east 3 in a tonpuusen (at least, I think that’s what this is). Any hand that can’t get at LEAST a direct mangan is not really worth going for. You’ve got a reasonable hand for east 1, but it doesn’t really have potential for more than 2 dora riichi pinfu, and that’s if things go very well for you. The pei discard is the best discard for advancing your hand, and I think the draw is good for you. You’ve got about an average starting hand, but you need a top 20% starting hand from this point position.

    6. Breaking a pair definitely seems correct, and I think I prefer breaking nan. It’s definitely better for advancing your hand, and I personally place very little value in denying opponents possible honor calls. Shimocha almost certainly would discard a lone nan over the 3m, so he would have had to have exactly the other two nan in his starting hand, which is so unlikely that it’s not really worth considering; even if he does call pon, all it does is give him one more yaku in a hand that already has a yaku and makes his hand easier to read.

    7. I would discard ton. The plan is to get either a closed hand (possibly chiitoitsu or an open hand with haku and either honitsu or two dora. Ton is your only floating tile, and even the 98m is worth more than a lone value honor.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Nice to see you here! Thanks for your thoughts!

      3) Lone tiles vs weak waits is a thing I hesitate about often. In this example the possibility of SSK may indeed be the reason to keep the penchan for now.

      5) Lol I actually didn’t look at my score there, my bad! Draw might not be such a bad idea then.

      In terms of advancing my hand I can’t see how Pei is in any way better than Nan. The only difference is that Suufon renda nuance, I think. I think I would still discard Nan first. This is not a dream hand but it can still develop to sth like Pinfu Sanshoku Dora 2 and may help me reduce the point gap. Dreamer xD

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  2. 1) I will definitely maintain a damaten oya mangan here to increase the chance of securing a lead. I’m not sure what was the shape aka 5p went, that tanki would have been a haneman tenpai. Currently, u can switch to wait on haku and change to a stronger nobetan, but there is no need to riichi. You can even skilfully play around opposing riichis if necessary since you can change your single waits.

    2) 2s is the discard with the best efficiency that doesn’t get rid of a dora, by referring to tenhou/net/2

    3) I think if you consider a remote ittsu, this hand is closer to a remote ssk than ittsu. You can get rid of 3s first and see how the hand develops. Don’t be afraid to backfire,

    4) I am not sure what you are talking about – you are in tenpai and you can go with a tanki first and try to adjust your wait since it’s still relatively early. You can even riichi on tanki 5m if you have a feeling the red one will come to you.

    5) Kyuushu Kyuhai is 9 terminals of 9 types. This situation is Suufonrenda (not sure about the spelling). Considering this hand is 5 shanten with only 1 dora, I will go for the draw by discarding pei.

    6) Considering the awful shape of this hand and the lack of yaku, I don’t really think you want to break a pair now and focus on drawing in those weird kanchans yourself. You can draw 6s first, and keep your options open for even chitoitsu if you get the pair draw flow.

    7) Usually we don’t discuss haipai discards unless there is a clear yaku we want to aim for. You can discard ton for maximum efficiency, or discard 89m to keep both chitoitsu and honitshu options open.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Thanks for your comment, LKH! Your insight is always very helpful 🙂

      3) Yes. You mean 789 SSK, right?

      4) What I meant was exactly what you wrote. I just wanted to really break it down because I used to get confused in such situations and just click Riichi. I’m sure many beginners also don’t think much about their shapes in such situations and just go for Riichi too…. Which isn’t necessarily bad, like you said, but I think one should always AT LEAST consider wait improvement if it’s still so early….

      5) Exactly – can’t believe I confused the names there, thanks! xD

      6) What would you discard then? Penchan 89m lets me utilize Dora. 8p has been discarded once which makes it a weaker tile for Chiitoi – maybe 8p???

      7) I was only wondering whether anyone would just go for straight Honitsu there.

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  3. I’ll input some reasoning that I prioritise.

    3) Keeping the penchan here is fine due to possibility of SSK. Its good enough to have 1 other lone tile as your backup set. (3s or 3p). If this is 7th turn, then disard 89p because the requirement to push this hand has become higher.

    4) There’s a back to isshanten way to play. Discard 5p. This gives 36m, 3467p = 19 tiles. If you are ok with Furiten riichi, assuming your next draw gives you 45m, I would definitely furiten riichi on 259p. Considering this, it adds to your total tiles efficiency to 25.

    6) 9s hands down. No idea why anybody will choose to discard nan since benefit of keeping 9s is a lot better. You are right, having this hand that can only prepare you to defend, shouldn’t give any chance to add an extra hand to your shimocha. If riichi comes in, you can discard nan to stimulate nan-cha to pon and deal into riichi. So much more flexible. The 6s is not recommended because again, you need to minimize shimocha from melding since your hand is already bad and the discard pool is moving towards players wanting the middle souzu/manzu, if you wish to keep this hand alive, 6s has to be kept.

    7. Keeping 89m is difficult for menzen riichi. You also wouldn’t want to riichi on pen 7m, with worst case scenario your haku being your lone pair. Hence, move towards both menzen/meld-friendly hand. haku+dora 1 or honitsu + haku. Many players might argue ton has higher efficiency but let’s not consider the ukeire of 89m as it doesn’t really help your hand. It is 4 tiles of 7m vs 3 tiles of ton. The latter, gives you 12k. So for highest expected value discard, discard 89m.

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